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Financial literacy is rarely taught, but it touches almost every major decision we make. In this episode of The Long Term Investor, I’m joined by Haley Sacks, better known as Mrs. Dow Jones, to talk about overcoming money shame, increasing your earning potential, spending with intention, and investing for long-term freedom.
Haley is the author of Future Rich Person, and her message is simple: becoming good with money is not about deprivation or perfection. It is about taking action, building confidence, and using money to create more control over your life.
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How Haley Sacks Became Mrs. Dow Jones After Her Financial Wake-Up Call (00:29)
Haley did not start her career on Wall Street. She started in comedy, working for David Letterman and later Lorne Michaels. But her first full-time job came with a financial reality check: she was suddenly being asked to make decisions about health insurance, 401(k)s, and benefits she had never been taught to understand.
That moment exposed a problem many people face. Haley did not know how to read a paycheck or evaluate workplace benefits, and when she tried to educate herself, much of the advice she found was either overly complicated or condescending.
That experience eventually led to Mrs. Dow Jones, a platform built around making financial education more approachable, entertaining, and empowering. Haley realized personal finance did not need to feel intimidating. With basic math, automation, and a willingness to learn, people can make meaningful progress.
Why Money Shame Blocks Financial Confidence and Wealth Building (05:01)
One of the first things I wanted to ask Haley about was shame. Her book begins with people who feel overwhelmed, embarrassed, or avoidant about money, and I think that is where many people get stuck.
Haley explained that shame often causes people to shut down. When someone feels bad about their debt, spending, income, or lack of financial knowledge, they are less likely to look at their numbers or take action.
But her point is that most people were never taught financial literacy in the first place. Not knowing how money works is not a personal failure. It is often the result of a system that leaves people to figure it out on their own.
That is why Haley believes the first step is to “face it.” Before you can change your financial habits, you need to understand the beliefs, stories, and fears shaping your behavior. Financial literacy is learned, not inherited, and everyone starts somewhere.
Why Increasing Your Earning Potential May Be Your Best Investment (07:02)
As the host of a show called The Long Term Investor, I obviously believe investing matters. But Haley makes an important point: people should also think about investing in themselves.
There is a limit to how much you can cut from a budget, but there is no fixed ceiling on how much you can earn. That means building skills, becoming more valuable at work, and learning how to negotiate can have a major impact on your long-term financial success.
One practical tool Haley recommends is a “wins folder.” This is a place to track accomplishments, positive feedback, measurable results, and examples of value you have created at work.
I loved this idea because I did something similar early in my career. Every quarter, I wrote down what I had accomplished and shared it with the person I reported to. Nobody is thinking about your career as much as you are, so documenting your value gives you evidence when it is time to ask for a raise, pursue a promotion, or make a career move.
Making more money does not automatically create wealth. But making more money, avoiding the temptation to spend it all, and investing the difference is a powerful formula.
How to Spend Better, Align Money With Your Values, and Avoid Deprivation (09:35)
Haley is not the kind of financial educator who tells people to cut out everything they enjoy. She loves spending money, and that is part of what makes her approach refreshing.
Her message is not to spend as little as possible. It is to spend in a way that reflects your actual values.
Haley uses the 50/30/20 framework as a starting point: 50% of after-tax income toward needs, 30% toward wants, and 20% toward “future you.” The 30% for wants is important because a sustainable financial plan needs room for joy.
That might include travel, restaurants, theater, clothes, jewelry, hobbies, or anything else that genuinely matters to you. The key is intentionality.
Haley also recommends having a monthly money date, where you review your spending and ask whether your purchases were actually worth it. I told her that people often talk about their values, but their spending reveals what their values really are.
A money date is not about guilt. It is about awareness. Did this purchase make my life better? Was I spending because I was stressed, bored, or influenced? Would I make the same choice again?
Those questions help turn spending from something reactive into something intentional.
How to Balance Short-Term Financial Goals With Long-Term Investing (13:02)
Haley and I also talked about how to think about short-term goals versus long-term investing.
Her view is that both matter, but they should come from different buckets. A vacation or lifestyle goal may belong in the “wants” category. Retirement contributions, Roth IRA contributions, or other asset-building goals belong in the “future you” category.
That distinction matters because not every goal serves the same purpose. Some goals help you enjoy life now. Others are designed to build flexibility and freedom later.
Haley put it well: you cannot have everything, but you can have anything. Once you know what matters most, it becomes easier to say no to the things that do not support it.
Why Emergency Funds Are Really Freedom Funds Before You Start Investing (13:49)
I have felt for a while that emergency funds need a rebrand. The term makes people think only about car repairs, medical bills, or unexpected home expenses. Those things matter, but cash reserves can do much more than that.
Haley described emergency savings as an exit plan, a fire extinguisher, or “f-you money.” I think that framing is powerful because it gets to the real purpose of cash: flexibility.
Cash can help someone leave a toxic job, exit an unhealthy relationship, or get through a difficult season without being trapped financially. That does not mean every bad day is an emergency, but when life becomes genuinely difficult, cash gives you options.
This is also why Haley warns against investing before you have a basic financial foundation. If you invest without an emergency fund, you may be forced to sell during a market downturn. If you have high-interest debt, the interest rate on that debt may be working against you faster than your investments can work for you.
The sequence matters: build stability, address high-interest debt, then invest for the long term.
The Biggest Investing Mistakes: Get-Rich-Quick Thinking and Too Much Cash (17:06)
Haley sees two common investing mistakes.
The first is chasing get-rich-quick opportunities. Some people feel like the system is stacked against them, so they look for shortcuts through hot stocks, speculative investments, IPOs, or private-market hype. The problem is that these opportunities often come with more risk than people realize.
The second mistake is avoiding investing altogether. Some people become so afraid of market volatility that they hold too much cash, even after they have built an emergency fund and paid off high-interest debt.
Both extremes can be harmful. Speculation can lead to permanent losses, while excessive cash can lose purchasing power over time.
One of my favorite lines from Haley was that she does not want an average wardrobe, average relationships, or average travel, but when it comes to investing, she wants average. That is a great way to think about long-term investing.
Trying to be exceptional as an investor often leads to unnecessary risk. Broad diversification, realistic expectations, and discipline are usually far more effective than chasing the next big thing.
Why Looking Rich Is Not the Same as Being Rich (20:45)
Haley and I spent time discussing the difference between looking rich and actually being rich.
Social media creates constant pressure to signal success through clothes, vacations, cars, restaurants, and lifestyle choices. But appearing wealthy and building wealth are not the same thing.
In fact, the pressure to look rich can keep people from becoming rich. Money that could be saved, invested, or used to create flexibility often gets spent maintaining an image.
Haley also pointed out how difficult it is to be a consumer today. We are constantly targeted by advertisements, influencers, cookies, email marketing, and frictionless payment tools. A purchase that once required effort can now happen in seconds.
Her advice is to add friction back into your financial life. Unsubscribe from marketing emails. Unfollow influencers who trigger unnecessary spending. Remove saved payment information. Clear your cookies. Pause before buying.
Her simple reminder is useful: when someone is selling you something, they are trying to take your money.
Why Getting Rich and Staying Rich Require Different Financial Skills (25:05)
I asked Haley about an idea from her book that I think deserves more attention: getting rich and staying rich are different skill sets.
Building wealth requires earning, saving, investing, and taking action. Staying wealthy requires discipline, tax planning, lifestyle control, and ongoing intentionality.
One of the biggest threats is lifestyle creep. When income rises, spending often rises with it. Bigger homes, nicer cars, private schools, travel, restaurants, and social expectations can consume income quickly.
Haley calls the money left over after spending “action money.” Without action money, it does not matter how much someone earns. Financial progress becomes difficult when there is no gap between income and expenses.
This also connects to generational wealth. Haley shared that one lesson she learned from her own family was the importance of long-term planning and not trying to keep up with others. Generational wealth is not always about extravagant lifestyles or massive inheritances. For many families, it comes from consistent planning, disciplined investing, and intentional choices over time.
Why Financial Confidence Follows Financial Action (30:35)
Near the end of the conversation, I asked Haley what someone should do if they feel overwhelmed and do not know where to start.
Her answer was simple: financial confidence follows financial action.
You do not need to feel confident before taking the first step. Confidence comes from proving to yourself that you can take action.
That first step could be opening a high-yield savings account, automating a transfer, creating a savings bucket, listening to financial education, tracking your spending, or learning a skill that increases your earning power.
The path to becoming a future rich person is not about perfection. It is about action, consistency, and using money to create more control over your life.
Where to Find Haley Sacks, Mrs. Dow Jones, and Future Rich Person (34:28)
You can find Haley at Mrs. Dow Jones, where she shares financial education through pop culture, humor, and practical money advice.
Her book, Future Rich Person, is available wherever books are sold, and her podcast, Financial Tea, is released every Thursday.
The Long Term Investor audio is edited by the team at The Podcast Consultant
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